Permanent Broad-brushing Disclaimer

Though we have tried to repeatedly express on this blog that we do not in ANY way seek to project the idea that all Independent Fundamental Baptist are the same and that many do NOT share some of the characteristics that we at times discuss, I’d like to piggy-back on Trevor’s last post and put up a permanent disclaimer that we can reference in the future when someone feels we are broad-brushing the entire movement. It is clear that the “movement” is in no way shape or form a homogenous entity. There are many different segments or camps within it, and there are even some who really are Independent and not really a part of any sub-group within the “movement.” Anyone would be foolish to seek to impugn this entire “group” as if they could truly all be bunched together. We want to clarify that we do NOT EVER wish to project unto all of these dear people whatever topic we may be dealing with.

For example, on the subject of the King James Bible, within this group you will have a WIDE variety of positions ranging from the far right (Ruckman/Riplinger type ideas) to a semi-middle of the road position (David Cloud/Crown College, etc..) to a very open position (BJ crowd, etc.)

Obviously when dealing with the King James issue on this blog we realize that there would be many IFB’s who would in fact agree with us or at least not be very far from us. I could give example after example, whether it be standards, preferences, even doctrinal positions such as Calvinism, etc.

Another observation would be that even though some IFB’s would strongly disagree with some of our positions they would do so in a gentle and kind spirit characterized by a Spirit-filled and loving response. These are WONDERFUL people! God bless them! If you are one of these IFB’s, man, I don’t care if you disagree with me on almost everything, I’m proud to call you my brother or sister in Christ and I have NO problem with you. At the end of the day, I am NOT under the illusion that I am right in all areas. If you are characterized by a loving and gentle spirit you ARE lifting up Christ, regardless of where you stand on eschatology or music preferences! I am FOR YOU! Please, never feel attacked by this blog!!!

The purpose of this blog is NOT to attack anyone, but to lift up Christ! We DO wish to encourage and bless those who may be under some of the oppressive and legalistic segments of the “ugly right” within the movement. We have traveled a difficult yet exciting journey as God has done some amazing things in our lives, yet we remember the many times we felt all alone as we wondered where we even fit as we saw certain “beliefs” fade away in the light of scripture. It was the encouragement of some amazing people that God brought into our lives that blessed us on many occasions. All we seek to do here is chronicle our journeys and lay out random thoughts of what God is doing in us. We would love to see this blog and forum grow into a place for people to connect with others and be greatly encouraged as we hunger after God together. Sadly, some WILL feel the wrath of dogmatic and angry people as they make this journey. We wish to encourage them with the knowledge that we have survived that and they can as well. We don’t serve man, we serve God!

I have wonderful friends who I treasure greatly who are firmly IFB and who disagree with me in many areas. My brother-in-law is strong KJV, the whole package. I appreciate his kind and gentle spirit. I have no beef with him and am grateful for his love for the Lord and his humble and meek spirit. I am SO grateful that I can love and appreciate these fine men and that they can return the friendship. For complete clarity, we are NOT anti-IFB. We are anti arrogant and un-accountable pastors, leaders and tyrants, we are against ugly dogmaticism in non-essentials, we are against any Christian being stripped of his/her ability to study the word and obey the Holy Spirit. We are COMPLETELY against blind allegiance and loyalty to men and movements! We wish to exalt Christ with all we are!

Tony

It's Not About the IFB...

I just wanted to throw something out there. I just spent the morning at a wonderful IFB church in the city above me. My kids actually play baseball in their church league. My father-in-law is the co-pastor there. They have standards of dress, music and they are strong KJVO, but one thing that stands above all of those things is the fact that they love the Lord! I love them. We have differences, but the love of Christ transcends those differences and where there is agreement we speak freely and where there is possible contention we simply don't find those peripheral issues worth the contention they may cause and we simply don't go there. I totally respect them and the standards that they have and when I am there I abide by every single one of them. If I have shorts on I don't go in their buildings and if I attend a service at their church I wear a suit. They know I'm 'different', but they respect me and love me as a Christian as I respect them and love them as lovers of Christ and worshippers of God. We golf, we play, we hang out, we bowl, and we have sweet fellowship in the name of our great Jesus! I had a wonderful conversation with a person on their staff this morning about some of these issues (and bear in mind that they are strong IFB. They attend pastors school in Hammond every year). You know what he said to me? It's stunning...

He said, "You're my friend above all else and that is not going to change." How awesome and how Christian is that??!!?? Sure we differ in some contentious areas, but we both love Jesus and at the end of the day that's all that really matters!

What's my point? It's this...

This blog is not about the IFB. It's not about bashing anyone or railing on a certain denomination because we are mad (in spite of the baseless allegations that have been made). This isn't a blanket broad brush of everyone and every church that is a part of the IFB movement. There are many wonderful Christian people who love Jesus above all else and are KJVO with dress and music standards etc. We, here at 'free from the box' have zero problem with them and have no beef with them in any way shape or form. As a matter of a fact, there are many wonderful people that we have and will continue to learn from who proudly display that banner, but are lovers and worshippers of Jesus and not worshippers of men or a movement.

What we are trying to help people see is that there is freedom from religious zealots who want to make you think that you are wrong because you think, because you differ on peripheral issues, or because you dare ask questions. We want to let people know that they are not alone when a tyrannical pastor makes them think they will never find another job in the ministry because they are no longer KJVO. We want to shine the light on the glory of Christ and let people know that the Christian world is huge and beautiful and socially and culturally diverse. We want to let lovers of Jesus know that it's o.k. not to agree 100% on every single thing. We want to give Christians a voice and an opportunity to ask questions and get answers in a safe and loving Christian environment.

We have seen the ugliness of people who love issues more than they love people and who boldly claim their conditional friendship based on 100% loyalty to a movement, and this is what must be questioned and must be called out and that is why this blog exists.

We're not mad at anyone, but we do have an agenda...to glorify God. I love my Christian brothers and sisters in Christ from every denomination, culture and country. We all serve a great and gracious Savior and when you've been changed by the power of His imputed righteousness how can we base friendship on whether or not one wears a suit and tie or listens to a certain type of music? It all pales in comparison to being radically changed by the cross of Jesus Christ! We've been made new! We are all fallen and unworthy but for the grace of God! May that be the tie that binds as we encourage those who are caught in the trap of men who would rather be loyal to men and movements than to love the children of God unconditionally.

Trevor

Opinion vs. Biblical Theology

I have received a few letters the past few days challenging my 'changing' ways. I have been called a compromiser and had my ethics questioned all because of disagreement. Let me clarify a few things...

The problem that I see with the few people that have written from an authoritative standpoint concerning my apparent doctrinal error is that it is based on the idea that they are automatically right and anyone who disagrees with them is by default wrong. If there is any disagreement then the one disagreeing with them is automatically wrong and doesn't deserve a Biblical reason for the disputed doctrine. So far I've been called a compromiser, had my ethics questioned, and told I was in blatant doctrinal error. These same people have told me they are telling me these things because they genuinely care about me. Here's the problem: If they care about me so much and I'm in possible doctrinal error, then they should at least take the time to explain to me from a Biblical standpoint why I am in error. They haven't done this. As a matter of fact, when asked to do so they simply refuse. They come in claiming love and genuine concern and then fail to give me a Biblical reason why they believe I'm in error. I can only take from this that it is simply their opinion that I am wrong and, therefore, they lose all authority to make such bold claims. If I'm wrong and you show me Biblically that I am (and by Biblically I mean contextually, not simply pulling a verse here and there to back up wild claims) I will gladly change my position in a heartbeat. My greatest desire in life is to be thoroughly Biblical and I'm learning every single day. But if you just make accusations and cute alliterated jabs about who I am without one single Bible reference, I simply cannot do anything with that. It is not helpful and cannot be taken seriously. If there is going to be reason then reason with Scripture and not with opinion. If one claims that the KJV is absolutely perfect then the burden of proof lies on that person to back up that amazing claim Scripturally. If I claim that the sky is orange then it is not up to you to prove it is blue. The burden of proof would lie on me. If one says that everyone needs to wear a suit and tie or they are not right with God then the burden of proof lies on the one making the claim and not on the one who doesn't.

Let me make this perfectly clear...

I believe in the Trinity, Virgin Birth, the Diety of Jesus Christ, The Atonement, Salvation by grace through faith, The inerrancy of the Bible, the inspiration of Scripture, and the Second Coming of Jesus Christ. Line that up with anyone throughout history and this position is nothing short of being historically fundamental. If people believe these things then there is absolutely no reason to have disunity or separation without blatant willful and unrepentant sin.

As for KJVO, dogmatic views of eschatology, certain dress standards, music standards, etc. These simply have no place in historical fundamentalism. If you make the bold claims that only certain music is ok and only certain dress is acceptable and only one particular version of the Bible is absolutely perfect, then the burden of proof lies on you to show that your claim is Biblical. The burden of proof does not lie on me to prove why I don't believe these things. If you want to believe these things, I don't have a problem one with that, but don't tell me I'm a compromiser and unethical because I do not. Especially in light of the fact that the claims have not been backed up with one relevant passage of Scripture.

We have not and will not use this blog to tell people they are wrong for believing differently that we do. We realize there are cultural and social considerations for things such as dress and music and preaching style. There are also traditional considerations in many places that must be taken into account. We realize that people are going to do things differently than we do and that is perfectly fine. I don't wear a suit and tie, but there great men of God who do. That doesn't make one of us right and one of us wrong, but rather that makes us different and diverse. We have a contemporary worship style but others do not and they often have strong reasons to do so, but again we don't call each other heretics, we both have hearts crying out to God with different means. When there is difference that doesn't have to mean that there is right and wrong. That is absurd. It simply is what it is: difference. There are certain things that cannot be compromised and we believe in those things with all our hearts and souls. But for all the rest I quote Augustine,

"In necessary things, unity; in doubtful things, liberty; in all things, charity."

Let us sound a call for unity that allows for diversity! Let's love one another in spite of our differences and not simply because you agree with me or vice versa. How can we ever learn, discern, or grow if all of us are exactly the same. The beauty of Christianity is the ability to disagree on the peripheral while agreeing on the necessary. May we not compromise that great freedom given to us by our great God and Lord, Jesus Christ.

Trevor

Where did the arrogance come from?

Where did the arrogance come from?

Over the weekend I attended my baby sister’s high-school graduation in North Carolina. She graduated from a small IFB Christian School. It felt like I traveled back in time as I sat in the auditorium and saw all of the trappings and arrogance I so vividly remember in my nightmares even as it was obvious that the “success” those circles craved eludes this dying church. The auditorium could probably seat 350, yet 40 of us filled out the first five pews to watch the ceremony for the three graduates. When I say watch, that’s what I mean. It was more depressing than a funeral. The service (complete with four guys in suits on the platform) moved along with military precision. One song, announcements, one song, testimony, one special…. You get the idea. Watching the four “men of God” on the platform grimace as we sang “Great is Thy faithfulness” was enough to make me sick to my stomach. I ‘ve observed Catholic services with more life and vigor than these poor people could muster. As the “ensemble” performed their special music the pasted on grin by the woman doing the falsetto stuff was an incredible “joker” impersonation. There was almost a creepiness to the whole service. When my baby sister made her way to the platform I had suffered more than I could take and I broke the silence with a “You go, girl!” She smiled and went on to give her speech. She broke down in tears as she spoke of her parents and I nervously glanced up at the pontiff (pastor) to see if this show of needless emotion would bring some consequence. My sister wrapped up her speech with a couple of lines that didn’t sound like her. She said how “most of all she was grateful for her teachers at the school who had sacrificially lived Christ before her and how she wanted to live her life emulating them.” This struck me a little strange, yet the grin on the pontiff’s face made it clear he enjoyed it very much. When my sister sat down another special was “performed” in perfect pitch and complete deadness, then the pontiff made his way to the pulpit. By the look on his face I knew we were in for something interesting and sure enough… I’ll do my best to produce his words verbatim…

“We are going to maintain proper decorum throughout this service and we ask you to do the same.” (Remember, I’m the only one who has made a peep so far in the service)
Ok, so he’s an uptight jerk… but he didn’t stop. “These graduates have worked hard and they are worthy of your respect” I drop my head in disbelief, there’s a nervousness and tension in the room that brings back floods of memories,,, but the pontiff is not done. “ If you do not have enough respect for your own accomplishments in life to act with decorum I truly pity you, but you should at least be able to respect these graduates and their accomplishments.” As the harsh and completely unnecessary words of this puffed up fool hung over the room I didn’t know whether to laugh or cry. He’s obviously used to intimidating people with his cutting words, but I didn’t feel intimidated, I felt incredibly depressed. I’ve been screamed at by Bob Gray, filleted with the atomic bombs that proceed from Jim Vineyard’s mouth, seen the worst offenders in my old circles turn purple as they screamed at me or some other helpless kid, so this puffed up 5’5” wanabee only looked pathetic with his verbal pea-shooter. I was just reminded of all the oppressive fools that I have been around in ministry. I have spent the last two days on a trip down memory lane, and I ask myself this question… “Where did the arrogance come from?” When exactly did “men of God” become arrogant, oppressive, manipulative jerks? When exactly did we begin to excuse such boorish behavior because it was some-how justified by the righteous indignation of the jerk behind the pulpit? Someone please tell me how Christians who love God with all of their hearts would ever tolerate clowns like Phil Kidd or Jim Vineyard without placing them on church discipline for their wickedness? The further I get away from it, the more it blows my mind how Christians will tolerate men who DO NOT display the fruit of the Spirit in positions of Spiritual authority. You and I both know that none of the men on the platform at my sister’s graduation will have the spine to sit down with the “pontiff” and confront him over his behavior. These men are FULLY unaccountable. NO ONE questions them. It’s not ok! WHO DO WE THINK WE ARE???? Where did ANY of us as Pastors/preachers think we got the authority to speak with such condescension towards anyone else? Where exactly did we forget that it’s only grace that allows us to stand? Where did the ARROGANCE come from? God help us!

The buffoon behind the pulpit knew nothing about me. I wasn’t in suit and tie. I could have been an unsaved family member who had been dragged kicking and screaming to a church for someone’s graduation. Yet he felt the need to try to completely humiliate me in front of everyone there. The picture just got worse later as I spoke with my sister. The lines at the end of her speech, the ones about her teachers modeling Jesus and her wanting to emulate them, were put in her speech verbatim by him. Wait, it gets worse…
He taught three of her classes this last year. You read that right.

I’m no better than this man. I’m a hopelessly depraved ego-maniac. I recognize that. I recognize the leanings in my heart to this same thing. I grew up around it. At times, sadly I have even emulated it. It is WICKED, however, and may I never excuse such behavior in my life, even if I fail and act in such a manner. May the preacher of God’s Word be characterized by humility, meekness and gentleness.

Where did the arrogance come from?

Tony